Which do you guys prefer when thinning out a unit that's too dense, and for creating a natural looking hairline?

I read your other thread, as well as this one ....
Why could you not ` use` the front hairline of the system? All systems [stock and custom] have graduated-density front hairlines by default, unless , in the case of a custom-made, you specify non-graduated.
If when trimming a system`s base, you should never trim /interfere with the front hairline, if at all possible......trim the sides/ back, only......cutting lace from the front means you are going ` back` into the denser hair, and this will not give a natural look, in most cases.The front area [most visible] will normally have the knots bleached /invisible, therefore, removing /cutting off sections of lace there, means you lose the best-bleached knots.
To thin-out a lace system, tweezers is not advisable..the hairs are tied in knots..trying to pull out the hairs will result in them simply snapping off, leaving the knot intact.
Using things such as Nair, is more practical, but in my experience, you need to take time and be patient..remember too, that not all hair will shed-out immediately ..so don`t go overboard when using it initially....more hairs will shed out over the next day or two when brushing the hair.
This video should help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPULkcyVD2Y
If I were you, I`d consider ordering a new system and this time, don`t cut the front area ` across` .....if you need to re-shape it to suit your ` look`, you can trim the sides and back of the lace......use a very sharp blade [a hobby /craft knife is ideal] and draw the tip of the blade across the lace....don`t push it down through it....you only want to separate one section of lace from another..don`t cut the hair under the lace, and do NOT under any circumstances use a scissors. You can also purchase a thinning-scissors..this is useful for doing a ` light` thin-out....bear in mind that this cuts hair ..it will simply shorten the hair strands...it will leave ` stubble` [shortened hair/s with knot still intact ] but it helps to ` soften ` the overall look by making it a bit thinner....hope that makes sense.

(11-05-2015, 09:06 AM)Paul In Ireland Wrote: I read your other thread, as well as this one ....
Why could you not ` use` the front hairline of the system? All systems [stock and custom] have graduated-density front hairlines by default, unless , in the case of a custom-made, you specify non-graduated.
If when trimming a system`s base, you should never trim /interfere with the front hairline, if at all possible......trim the sides/ back, only......cutting lace from the front means you are going ` back` into the denser hair, and this will not give a natural look, in most cases.The front area [most visible] will normally have the knots bleached /invisible, therefore, removing /cutting off sections of lace there, means you lose the best-bleached knots.
To thin-out a lace system, tweezers is not advisable..the hairs are tied in knots..trying to pull out the hairs will result in them simply snapping off, leaving the knot intact.
Using things such as Nair, is more practical, but in my experience, you need to take time and be patient..remember too, that not all hair will shed-out immediately ..so don`t go overboard when using it initially....more hairs will shed out over the next day or two when brushing the hair.
This video should help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPULkcyVD2Y
If I were you, I`d consider ordering a new system and this time, don`t cut the front area ` across` .....if you need to re-shape it to suit your ` look`, you can trim the sides and back of the lace......use a very sharp blade [a hobby /craft knife is ideal] and draw the tip of the blade across the lace....don`t push it down through it....you only want to separate one section of lace from another..don`t cut the hair under the lace, and do NOT under any circumstances use a scissors. You can also purchase a thinning-scissors..this is useful for doing a ` light` thin-out....bear in mind that this cuts hair ..it will simply shorten the hair strands...it will leave ` stubble` [shortened hair/s with knot still intact ] but it helps to ` soften ` the overall look by making it a bit thinner....hope that makes sense.

Thanks for your response, I couldn't use the shape of the hairline on the stock piece, just wouldn't match the desired look I needed. It would have looked strange when trying to join to the temple/sides area. I've got to make this unit work for now, so I'm going to go get some Nair. I briefly tried the water, conditioner and pulling method. It seemed like the hair was just snapping instead of pulling from the knot. As far as when I thin out the density for the entire hairpiece, do you think that'll look horrible with the unbleached knots? Or if I only thin it out a little bit, maybe the dark knots will still be mostly covered up by the remaining hair?

I guess if it comes down to it and the knots show too much, then I could always try to bleach them.

If the stock front area is no good for you, then you should make a template to the desired shape /contour, and order custom.........soaking the knots in conditioner is usually successful..the knots swell and it can then be easier to pluck out the hair ....you need to wet the knots, and apply conditioner liberally ...leave it to `work` for, say, half an hour or so..... no matter what method, you can end up with an ` uneven`-looking system.....it can be ` patchy` ....only apply Nair in small ` dots` and try to spread them evenly.... you can end up with areas where there are clumps of hair, and others which look ` bald` ..the best way is to go slowly, over a few days....
The knots will be removed along with the hair ....there shouldn`t be a visibility issue as such ...be aware that the factory often uses fabric-dye to color the hair, so bleach will not be effective....you could try a fabric-dye remover on the knots first, as this would be less harsh than bleach....try it on a small / test area and see if it works.

(11-05-2015, 10:44 AM)Paul In Ireland Wrote: If the stock front area is no good for you, then you should make a template to the desired shape /contour, and order custom.........soaking the knots in conditioner is usually successful..the knots swell and it can then be easier to pluck out the hair ....you need to wet the knots, and apply conditioner liberally ...leave it to `work` for, say, half an hour or so..... no matter what method, you can end up with an ` uneven`-looking system.....it can be ` patchy` ....only apply Nair in small ` dots` and try to spread them evenly.... you can end up with areas where there are clumps of hair, and others which look ` bald` ..the best way is to go slowly, over a few days....
The knots will be removed along with the hair ....there shouldn`t be a visibility issue as such ...be aware that the factory often uses fabric-dye to color the hair, so bleach will not be effective....you could try a fabric-dye remover on the knots first, as this would be less harsh than bleach....try it on a small / test area and see if it works.

Paul thank you for your input, I usually read some valuable info from you and Hersute, and lots of others on the boards. I went and bought some Nair, it's scary but I think that would work better than the pulling thing. Yet I have experience with neither. It says to leave the Nair on for 3 minutes, but heck, it'll take a lot longer it seems, just to apply a decent number of tiny dots. I wonder how I should do that exactly. With washing them out, seems like doing so very fast wouldn't allow any kind of chemical reaction to happen in unwanted spots. The whole process on video with audio and showing the results would be a gold mine for thousands of people.

Paul, with removing a modest percentage of density (hopefully), those open areas won't show too much of the existing knots from the hair that is left?

As far as a custom unit, I didn't think I had time to wait, but it'll have to be custom from this point on. This is just too much anxiety for someone new to all of this.

i do the same. i cut in to the hair line and reshape it because the stocks i get (not from toplace) are between a CC and an A. this i find to straight..
i use the nair technique to add back the graduation. i also bleach the area to get rid of knots.
i have no experience with toplace but unless you are thinning out the entire piece dramatically (NOT ADVISED) the knots throughout the piece shouldnt be an issue. if anything, perhaps in a defined crown or hard part, not elsewhere

(11-05-2015, 11:17 AM)lovehair Wrote: i do the same. i cut in to the hair line and reshape it because the stocks i get (not from toplace) are between a CC and an A. this i find to straight..
i use the nair technique to add back the graduation. i also bleach the area to get rid of knots.
i have no experience with toplace but unless you are thinning out the entire piece dramatically (NOT ADVISED) the knots throughout the piece shouldnt be an issue. if anything, perhaps in a defined crown or hard part, not elsewhere

Good deal, thanks for letting me know lovehair. I'm definitely only going to do very small amounts at a time and check on it before doing more. Also, are you aware if using Nair with soothing aloe and lanolin will be fine. That's all they had. Seems like as long as the active ingredients are the same as the original, then it would work just the same.

not sure...i bought the pink bottle....yes do it very slowly....i did mine sort of in a zig zag, random pattern...a bit toward the edge and a bit further back within say a quarter inch of the front to create the graduation.....
when doing the above and for over all thinning of the piece you must keep in mind there will residual hair fallout.
just because it may appear as though much hasnt fell out it will continue to thin..
what i did to speed up the residual thinning is for a couple of days i'd wet, shake hard and comb...comb..comb..or brush brush brush.....shake..shake...shake...repeat

(11-05-2015, 12:56 PM)lovehair Wrote: not sure...i bought the pink bottle....yes do it very slowly....i did mine sort of in a zig zag, random pattern...a bit toward the edge and a bit further back within say a quarter inch of the front to create the graduation.....
when doing the above and for over all thinning of the piece you must keep in mind there will residual hair fallout.
just because it may appear as though much hasnt fell out it will continue to thin..
what i did to speed up the residual thinning is for a couple of days i'd wet, shake hard and comb...comb..comb..or brush brush brush.....shake..shake...shake...repeat

You answered one of the questions I was going to ask: how to speed up the process considerably. The other thing I'm not sure about is the number of minutes to keep the nair dots on. That Youtube video says 5 minutes and then I read someone here http://forum.toplace.com/showthread.php?tid=5531 say 3 minutes. Yet if it takes a couple of minutes to apply say one line or so, if you leave it sitting for 3 minutes before rinsing, then some of the dots will have been there from 4 to 5 minutes. How did you go about that part lovehair?

Also, just making sure that after washing out a couple of lines of the dots (after their minutes of sitting is up) that it's ok to start the process again. In other words, I don't have to wait for the hair to be dry in order to start again, right?

i have never done it in sections...you can just lay it down, lace side up and start from back to front...i have never been concerned with timing. reason being, by the time i get to the front more than 3 or 5 mintutes have passed. i cant imgaine how leaving it on longer can be bad, the idea is to dissolve the know. whats going to happen, dissolve the knot to much? lol only thing that can go wrong is if it seeped through, and that would be because you used big dots.
btw you could wait a few more minutes after applying the last dots.
i use one of those thin, pointy artist brushes. you are making small dots.
DO NOT do it again i'd say for at least 3 to 5 days having wet, shook, combed, brushed, wet etc over the course of those days. you should probably do a Got2B attachment so you can see where you are as far as density and hairline, thats really the only way to tell