JRob Wrote:

Jonesy123 Wrote:If the knots in the piece are not totally bleached all over the piece, then why bother going with lace all around ?, as I understand, the main purpose of lace is to allow people to see your scalp (assuming the density is low enough to allow it), but if the knots are not bleached, the entire illusion collapses...

The only really critical areas are the hairline and the crown. Even if you expose scalp with a light density it's not that big of a deal for me with a #17 light/medium brown hair.

That said, I'm sure it's more of an issue with darker hair.

I still think I am going to order my next unit all blonde and color the whole piece myself. Just seems like a better way to go to keep from killing the hair with a bunch of chemicals.

The first time I ordered a system I had Debbie dye a stock piece for me. She recommends ordering a #17 and then dyeing to suit my color which is a #6. The knots on the #17 were beautiful. I don't know if you ever had the opportunity to look at a #6 through 1B up close but the knots are embarrassingly obvious if they are not bleached. I always thought that dyeing a blond system was the best way to go as well but, I did run into a problem with a blond system I ordered from another supplier and had dyed professionally with permanent dye. It looked great for the first week but unfortunately after that, the color faded so fast it didn't match my hair anymore. That's why I was asking on the forum what kind of results people were getting dyeing their own pieces. Just speculation, but I think when a developer is used with a lift, it strips some of the cuticle layer so the color doesn't stay in as long. In this respect, no matter what we do we are treating with chemicals. I think it's safe to say there is a reason why the factories are using textile dyes and I suspect it has to do with color longevity. It would be a lot easier for them to use normal hair dye as they wouldn't have to boil the color in. Debbie mentioned that dyeing the piece twice sometimes helps the color set in. Perhaps that is the key. If you do it yourself, I would recommend using #10 developer as it deposits the color with minimal lift. That might help with the longevity a little. When you decide to do it on your own, let me know how it works out for you.

wantmorehair Wrote:The first time I ordered a system I had Debbie dye a stock piece for me. She recommends ordering a #17 and then dyeing to suit my color which is a #6. The knots on the #17 were beautiful. I don't know if you ever had the opportunity to look at a #6 through 1B up close but the knots are embarrassingly obvious if they are not bleached. I always thought that dyeing a blond system was the best way to go as well but, I did run into a problem with a blond system I ordered from another supplier and had dyed professionally with permanent dye. It looked great for the first week but unfortunately after that, the color faded so fast it didn't match my hair anymore. That's why I was asking on the forum what kind of results people were getting dyeing their own pieces. Just speculation, but I think when a developer is used with a lift, it strips some of the cuticle layer so the color doesn't stay in as long. In this respect, no matter what we do we are treating with chemicals. I think it's safe to say there is a reason why the factories are using textile dyes and I suspect it has to do with color longevity. It would be a lot easier for them to use normal hair dye as they wouldn't have to boil the color in. Debbie mentioned that dyeing the piece twice sometimes helps the color set in. Perhaps that is the key. If you do it yourself, I would recommend using #10 developer as it deposits the color with minimal lift. That might help with the longevity a little. When you decide to do it on your own, let me know how it works out for you.

I had a stock unit dyed by Debbie one time and it held up well.

The one I dyed myself seemed to do ok as well, but it was only to replace faded color, not dyeing to a 7 or 17 from straight blonde.

For me it isn't much of an issue with a full cap with zero hair match. My natural color is close to a 7, but that looks way too dark on me. #17 is much better, but before it fades it looks dark compared to my older units. I think ideally I'm about two shades lighter than a 17, but starting out at 17 works pretty good cause it gives me extra longevity.

I'm so lucky. With a full cap you can get away with quite a bit of color variation. I feel sorry for you topper guys cause I was there myself at one time

Oh yea, and it might be the multi-strand ventilation, but even #17 knots are pretty dark if they aren't well bleached.

old factory, or new factory.. the knots should be at least somewhat bleached all around. It is important if you want to show any scalp, or have a lower density. I can understand if they didn't bleach really really good.. but anything less than that should not be accepted IMO.. no matter if it's a $200 piece or a $3,000 piece. If they are not going to be bleaching, then it should be stated when you purchase that you, as a consumer, have to purchase a bleach kit in order to bleach them, and that the bleach kit includes fabric dye remover. I suggest they do not dye the pieces like they have been, so that no fabric dye remover is needed if knot bleaching is going to be needed every time.

Can anyone explain to me why doesn't Toplace, for an extra cost, offer to double check the quality of the bleaching, and if not very good, do it themeselves (again, for an extra cost) ?

Is it hard for Toplace to find someone to do just the bleacing ?, with today's economy, hard to believe. Will people pay the extra price to have the assurance their piece is going to be bleached very well all around ?, I'm sure many will.

So what's the problem ?

Guys,
You are beating this topic to death. As Debbie has posted on here, some factories only bleach the knots on the hairline and dont' touch the rest of the system. Making a hair piece involves thousands of intricate hand knots and then hand bleaching. People send a lot of hair pieces to me for duplication. I see everyone of them when they come in. They come from Farrell, Hair Direct, Cool Piece, etc. And honestly, I don't care what you pay for a system you arent' going to get any better quality than what you get from our factory. Buy a few systems from Farrell (just to get a good size sample buy 3 units) and see if all 3 are perfect. The cost is $2,600 each so 3 would cost $7,800. Then post here on what the quality is like. I know the answer.
Regards,
John

John,
I wasn't saying you weren't the best, I was just asking why can't you offer a solution for this problem, if the customer is willing to add more money ?, I get it that you have limited control of what the factory does, but you can still hire someone to do it manually for people who are willing to add more money, isn't this possible ?

I prefer to pay some extra money in advance for someone to completely bleach my piece, instead of risking the entire piece with my unskilled hands.

Jonesy123 Wrote:John,
I wasn't saying you weren't the best, I was just asking why can't you offer a solution for this problem, if the customer is willing to add more money ?, I get it that you have limited control of what the factory does, but you can still hire someone to do it manually for people who are willing to add more money, isn't this possible ?

I prefer to pay some extra money in advance for someone to completely bleach my piece, instead of risking the entire piece with my unskilled hands.

You simply haven't paid attention
That service is already available (for a fee) and has been for some time.
Debbie offers a knot bleaching service.
Send the unit to her and she'll bleach the knots for you.



Fred (StealthTJ)

Fred are you sure ?, where was this said ?

Jonesy123 Wrote:Fred are you sure ?, where was this said ?

Yes I'm sure.
It's mentioned several times in the old forum.
You must read through the old one.
There's a ton of information that simply doesn't/hasn't made it here to the new forum.
Seems a lot of people who posted on the old one don't post here.

Drop Debbie an e-mail. She returns on the 22nd I think.

Debbie offers a wide range of services for the hair piece, cutting, coloring, knot bleaching, knot sealing, etc.



Fred