(07-29-2010, 01:21 AM)Paul In Ireland Wrote: Hello Apollo -just saw your post now as I was browsing the forum --it`s 2pm here now -- I see you left your post earlier on this morning --by now you have the new system bonded into place -- I really hope you`re happy with the `new`experience .... let us know how it goes -- best wishes and enjoy your holiday.Paul.

Hi Paul!

Sorry about the late update, but after coming home with my new hair it was just time to pack and leave for vacation a few hours later....

I also wanted to wait for a while to write this «review» so that I could get acquainted with the new hair system.

I've now worn it for 11 days and it's been both positive and some negative experiences...

For those who haven't read this thread, I've been waring a conventional hair system from Apollo for the last 15 years.
After discovering that there was an alternative here in my town which sold skin systems for less than half the price that Apollo would charge, I gave it a go since I was going away for holiday for a few weeks and that way could get a chance to try it out and still be able to go back to the old one if I didn't like it....

This new company I discovered, can get any type of system you want (also custom made), but they have been specializing in stock pieces with the newest type of skin base which their customers usually wear for 3-6 weeks and then buy a new one. The videos seen in the first post in this thread is of a customer that uses this company and their stock pieces.

So will I continue with this skin system when coming home...? Unfortunately no :-(

Not because it isn't a good system – it really is...

When walking in for my first appointment with the stylist I was of course quite excited and nervous.... It felt almost like I was cheating Apollo and sneaking of with a lover still being married, he he he. The stylist was a very cool guy and he definitely knew his trade and what he was talking about... He told me he travels around the world on seminars and teaches others what he does – and I have no reason not to believing him because when I called the salon a few months ago to book my appointment, the women on the phone said he was in Lisbon doing a seminar....

Anyway, there I was in the chair getting ready to say goodbye to my old rug...
The first and only problem he encountered with me, was that the stock piece was a bit too small since my Apollo piece is glued to my own hair and therefore there was about 1-2 cm of my own hair that was shaved down to a millimeter size. His stock piece would not get a good blend with my own hair because there would be a section around my head with very little hair... Kindly of him, he offered to use a full cap piece which normally would be a bit more expensive for the same price since he could easily cut this into the right shape for my head and hair.

So let's move on to he point when he had glued the skin piece to my head.... It was DEFINETELY a very strange feeling to NOT feel the piece on my head :-)
The skin was so thin it was almost impossible for even myself to feel the transition between my own scalp/hair to where the hair system started...!! Quite amazing!

The two things I immediately reacted to when sitting there with the new piece was 1: it was quite curly and I've always used very straight hair pieces and 2: it was very thin in density... it almost looked like I was balding – at least that's how I felt.

For number one, he agreed and used a chemical to straighten the hair – which helped a bit and for number two he said that this way it looked more natural as you could see some scalp without people being able to detect that I was using a hair system because of the skin's transparency... I guessed I just had to give it a few days and maybe it would feel better since my Apollo system has very heavy density (probably a bit too much I must admit myself).

And then let's fast forward 11 days to present time...

Am I impressed with the system? YES
Did it work for me? NO
Will I continue with my Apollo system? YES and NO

I am impressed with how thin and realistic it looks - and the softness of the real human hair compared with synthetic is amazing. The front is also amazingly undetectable and even my wife was unable to see that it was a hair system.
The color match with the stock piece was also very good and the stylist didn't need to color either my own hair or the system to get it to match!

So, why didn't it work for me? Well, first of all the hairs in this piece is injected in a way that makes it impossible to comb the hair forward. For the last fifteen years I've always had a hairstyle where the hair is combed forward – so the change would also be quite drastic moving to a combed back style. The only choice with this new one is to have it combed back (it almost looks like the style Travolta is using here: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrities/john-travolta – except my piece had less density) and this makes it very important to keep the front impeccable at all times...

And that moves us over to my experience with the gluing of the piece. So far the piece sits very firmly attached to my head. But as far as the front goes, I've not been happy about that at all... A part of the front loosened about 3-5 millimeters after coming home the first day – and now 11 days later, I've had to re-glue most of the front 3-4 times already :-(
To me this was not what I was hoping for... I am used to tapes in the front which is easy to clean and change, but with this veeery thin skin the process of cleaning and re-gluing the front was both time consuming and a bit messy at times when getting some glue in my hair by accident. I of course know that there is a learning curve to this and I probably would get better in time, but still I don't consider myself a newbie!
Actually today I had to glue the front again and I noticed that could easily lift up two-three centimeters of the front now and that makes me wonder if the piece would stick for at least three weeks which is what I would prefer.
It also started to itch a bit after 4-5 days. Now after showering and combing the hair the whole scalp itches a lot and combing the head gives a very good feeling and a don't want to stop combing if you can understand what I mean... Luckily the itching feeling calms down a bit after the head and hair dries, but this makes me think of your warnings about the scalps health and future problems with this way of attaching the hair system.... :-(

I'm quite an active person and in my work I deal with hundreds of people face to face every day, so I already miss being able to hide the front of the hairpiece by combing the hair forward so even if the piece is having some trouble with the attachment in the front, it's always possible to hide it with hair – but not this one unfortunately since the hairs can not be combed forward without the style looking ridiculous...
So YES the front part looks absolutely amazing compared to what I've worn up until now when it's attached properly, but NO there is now way of hiding a front that has loosened a bit if your not in reach of the tools to fix it - and at work I have no way of walking around with alchohol, wipes and glue in my pockets at all time...

Finally I have to comment on the hair density... I agree with the stylist that it looks quite realistic with the medium to light density that this one has, but I still would like to have more hair since I'm only in my mid 30's and I can get a away with a full head of hair. And I still think I look better with more hair than less hair ;-) My wife also supports me in this even though she thought this new piece looked good, she still commented that I look better with less forehead showing and that is what this combed back style gives me.

So what will I do now....? Well, later this week when coming back from my vacation I will go to my new stylist and discuss all these issues with him. Since I'm going back to work and I am not totally satisfied with this new piece I will change back to my old rug for the time being. I've also checked out the different options Top Lace has and as far as I can understand, the lace pieces can be attached in front with a tape(?). If so I think a system with the conventional poly perimeter on the sides and back with a lace front is something I would consider. The reason is also with a combination like that, I can continue my Apollo way of attaching the hair system (which I like) and still have a more realistic front – and last but not least having as much hair as I want with the options to comb it forward.... (correct me if I'm wrong here, Paul!).

My new stylist said he could provide custom made lace pieces as well and I will check out how much this would cost compared to Toplace since I also have to pay shipment, tax and customs for the Toplace pieces. I think I will also continue to use this new stylist for my monthly service as he provided a much more customer orientated means of doing his business than I experience at Apollo.

So there you have it.... Maybe this was much to read, but it was also nice for myself to put my thoughts into words ;-)

PS. If ever I will give Toplace a go, can I send one of my two Apollo pieces as a pattern?


Regards, Apollo2009

Hello again Apollo. Phew!! What a long post !! Very interesting to read and kind of mentally ``compare`` your experiences with the new system versus your old Salon. I`m surprised that they obviously didn`t allow for the correct size and had to cut-down a full cap to fit your bald area --- I mean, they had to have seen you for a consultation in person before ordering your new system --just seems to me that he/they didn`t properly look at the exact area to be covered. Also, having seen your previous style, why did he give you a unit with the hair ventilated backwards? The itch you feel on your scalp and the feeling that you want to keep running a comb over it , is the main reason I no longer wear all -poly..... I honestly think having a ``second skin`` glued to your scalp leads to issues with irritation etc. My scalp is really healthy now from wearing [ mostly] lace and being able to wash /shampoo my scalp daily. I am not sure of the rules in Norway or other countries regarding receiving hair -pieces via the mail ----- here I pay nothing at all. Toplace just posts the system in a polythene envelope, with a large customs declaration form attached giving the monetary value as a very low amount, my postman duly delivers it like any other item of mail ---- all items of International mail /parcels sent via normal postal routes into Ireland arrives at a central depot and I have seen on TV a clip of customs using sniffer -dogs to check mail for drugs etc --- as long as there is nothing illegal like that, I really don`t think they are too worried about a person buying a hairpiece and charging duties on it --- I know it may be different in Norway or other countries, but I would actually think, with so few such items as hairpieces being imported for your own personal use, I don`t think they`d bother , but you could phone them and check what the position is. I just received my latest Toplace unit a few days ago -- I will contact the stylist during the week and arrange a cut -in. I will take [and post ] pics of the system as it is now, and after it`s styled, on this thread as soon as I have it done [hopefully by the weekend] I understand what you mean about your density --if you can get away with a higher density at your age, that`s fine, but a bit of scalp show -through on any unit sure adds to the realism in other people`s minds that it`s your own growing hair --helps with the illusion, so maybe a bit more density than the new unit, but a little less than your old unit would be good. The front part lifting is common enough I think, with all -poly units. The front of the head can be `hot`and[ I reckon ] a bit oily, which can break down the glue --I wonder what type of glue they used -- is it the same one you are used to using? As you said, the hair -wearing game is a learning curve for all of us and a change to a new supplier brings new issues. I`ll post pics here, within the next week, hopefully before the weekend. Best wishes, Paul.

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I forgot to say that, yes, you can send in one of your old units to Toplace to be used as a match for a new unit. I think you should seriously consider a Toplace system. Paul.

Hi Paul!

Nice to hear that you can relate to most of my experiences :-)

Regarding the use of a full cap was because during my consultation, I was wearing my Apollo system and it was recently attached so i didn't want to take it off but they just assumed that a stock piece would fit. When I went there to put it on, the stock piece fitted, but it was just about a centimeter gap between the piece and where my own hair was fully grow and in this area my own hair is only about a millimeter long. I could have gone with a stock piece but the stylist wanted the best possible blend between in the trancition area between the hair piece and my own hair....

The glue he used on my whole scalp isn't the same that they use at apollo. This skin piece is attached with a white glue as seen in the video. It smells a bit like glue used for wood and he put on three layers/coats and let each layer dry and become transparent before putting on the next layer. He only put glue on my head and then the piece was rolled down and over my head immediately sticking firmly to my head. The glue is water based. 

At Apollo they use a transparent glue which smelles very strong like the super epoxy glue you can buy at a hardware store. They put one layer around the perimeter of the head and one corresponding layer of glue around the poly coated perimeter of the hairpiece. It is very sticky and if my stylist by accident would get some of this glue in my own hair it's really hard to get it out - even with alchohol! My stylist at Apollo usually also put a few strips of texstile tape under the glue on the piece as this tends to give me a stronger bond which normally holds very good between my services (usually every third or fourth week). 
I probably could have gone up to 6 weeks with this glue but I think it's better to get a full scalp cleaning every month and if i sweat a lot during a period of wearing the hairpiece sometimes moves a cm or two on my head because of the sweating and also the direction of how my own hair grows. 

So Paul, is it possible to attach the lace pieces with transparent tape only in the front or do you have to use some liquid tape as well to get a natural look?


Regards, Apollo2009

Hi Apollo, That glue sounds like the one I use -- I have just received my second Toplace unit, as I said, but I had a large tub of glue from a Salon I used to use in Dublin, and I use that on the lace front and short strips of tape on the poly perimeter. The glue I use is called Tracksafe, and is actually made in Ireland. I have read on the forums of wearers who use tape on the lace at the front, or profiles, which are basically strips of tape in the shape of a boomerang to fit to the curve/point at the front hairline. I ordered a bag of profiles from Debbie but I actually never used them, and use the glue instead - I think a lot of people seem to use tape all around the perimeter and a profile at the front -- I think the trick is to leave a small area of the lace overlapping the tape [maybe 2 or 3 mm ] and to use glue on that area in order to provide an undetectable transition between your growing hair and the system. In your case, I guess there is no real need to have as near -perfect a bond as possible, as your wife knows you wear so it`s not so much of an issue. Other wearers who use mostly tape all around their all -lace systems would be better to advise you on which tape would be best to use. If you look at Debbies`site, there are different tapes with different strengths for short term bonds up to long term bonds. As I said, I have a poly strip around the sides/back and lace front,so I tape the poly in a few places, and a light glue at the front, as I take it off nightly. I`m off to the stylist tomorrow for a cut -in. I took pics today of the system as it is now, including the strip of excess lace at the front before I trimmed it off --some people who order their first unit,see this strip of lace and are not sure what to do with it. I only ordered the hair 3 inches long this time, in order to make the job of the stylist easier --- I wear my hair fairly short, so there is no point in ordering 6 inches of length, and half of it ends up on the salon floor after a lot of work by the stylist --- I reckon tomorrow will not take half as long to style -in as a result. I took a pic of it just popped onto my head as it is now ( not attached) and will take another when it`s styled, just so people can see the difference .
Have a look here tomorrow [wednesday ]evening and I will post have the pics uploaded.
Can anyone give Apollo advice on whether you consider tape or glue to be better for the front?
Best regards, Paul.

Hi Paul!

Which did you mean that you use now? The white "wood" glue which only goes on the head - or the very strong transperent one that you glue on both head and piece and then stick together?

For my Apollo piece I have always used different types of those boomerang shaped tapes in the front - and as I mentioned, if I will order a Toplace system I think I will be going with the polycoated sides and back and only have lace in the front.

I really hope someone can tell me that tapes are ok to use on the lace front as I really don't like liquid glue because it can be a mess ;-)

Out of curiosity, if you take your system on and off every day I would assume it to be quite a lot of work with cleaning the glue from the system and re-attach on a daily basis...?


Regards, Apollo 2009

Hi Apollo -- the glue is a white glue, which just goes on the skin. The one I am using is called Tracksafe [ I was telling Debbie that I had it at home when I was ordering supplies, and she said it`s a good one, so I am using it at the moment ] I will order a glue from Debbie when this one runs out. I have no issues or bother with clean -up daily, as I only use a few little strips of tape on the poly part, and they are easy to remove as they simply peel off if you just catch them at the corner with your fingernail. I only apply a little glue to the skin at the front hairline, using a cotton-bud [the things you clean your ears with ] I only need a thin layer. Once it goes clear I press the lace down onto it, and it holds fine all day. You are used to [like I was] wearing an all - poly system for a few weeks at a time, and literally layers of glue plastered on in the salon in order to hold it on for weeks. There is no need to be heavy - handed with glue and tape at home -- believe me, all you need are a few strips of tape on the poly, and a moderate, thin layer of glue at the front. I remove from the back first --simply slide a finger in between the unit and the skin and it will release. Then just fold it forward, spray a little lace -release onto the skin just behind the glued part, and in a few seconds the unit will release ----I find practically all the glue is stuck to the skin and not the lace, so I just use the ``Pure`` adhesive remover I got from Debbie, on the skin there and wipe the adhesive off with kitchen -towel. The whole things is just SO easy --takes me about 2 or 3 minutes --- I know everyone wears for different time -spans and many want or need to wear for a few days at a time, especially when travelling etc. but I like to sleep with no unit on my head -- I think it`s easier on the unit too. I am only telling my way of doing things so that people can maybe get some ideas that they might like to try, or prefer not to do in order to perfect their own way of wearing----- I used to be paranoid that if I didn`t have about 20 layers of glue and tape applied before going out in a breeze, the system would end up being blown off and get caught in a tree ! :-) In reality, the tapes and glues are more than adequate to hold the system in place for daily wear and you can be economical in their use.There`s no point in making a mountain of work for yourself if you are doing frequent removals. Have a look through the forum -- I`m sure many wearers use tape on all -lace systems , or E -mail Debbie , who deals with the supplies area, and she can tell you which tape would be best to use on lace --- If you are considering ordering a unit with poly sides/back and lace front, you would find the glue very easy to work with as you only have to apply a layer or two [depending on preference] with a small artists paint brush, or cotton bud. You simply position the unit on your head, peel off the tape backing-strips[on the poly part] and press to the skin, so then you just have to do the front --you can lightly mark the front hairline with a pencil, fold the front of the system back out of the way, apply the glue just behind the marks, allow it to go clear, and then simply fold the system forward and down onto the glue -- I can assure you it`s just SO simple --- no glue will be stuck in the hair. You can wipe the pencil marks off with a cotton pad. You wear your hair styled forward so you need not be as concerned about how it `looks`` as a person who has a combed-back style where the hairline is much more visible. I know you were anxious about how your system looked or if it came loose at work, so I would suggest if /when you get a Toplace system, wear it at home over the weekend when you are not at work, and see how you get on with the amount of `` light`` bonding I suggest ---- you can go a bit heavier on the tapes and glues if you feel that you need it, so you will be confident going in to work and meeting people.
Have a look in this evening --I`ll post the pics as promised.... best wishes for now, Paul.

Ok --here we go. First pic shows front hairline with the excess lace not yet trimmed off. You can see the poly perimeter around the rest of the base.
Second pic, I`m holding the system gripping the excess lace bit,so you can see through the lace, and gives an idea of the density, and how this will allow scalp show -through.
Third : 5 strips of tape on the poly with the white backing tape still attached - I usually only use 3 strips, but for the cut -in, I wanted a bit of extra hold. You can see I have trimmed off the excess lace at the front.
Fourth: My pitiful remaining hair !!
Will do another post below this with more pics -------

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Next pic --- front hairline folded back off forehead just before applying glue. The tape strips have been attached now.
Next pic [2] showing the unit just sitting on the head before I went to the stylist --as you can see, the hair is fairly short and not a lot of work for the stylist to do as I only ordered 3 -inch length.
Next pic shows system after being styled/ trimmed showing scalp through the hair.
Last pic shows another view following the styling .... my webcam is not the best so apologies for the picture quality, but it gives people an idea of ``Before and after``.
Hope they are of some help /interest to people thinking of ``Making the leap`` into this world of wearing !!

What kind of base and hairline base is this guy wearing? Anyone know?

Hello MattP51 ---- the base is Swiss lace with a 1 -inch poly perimeter from the temple area around the back. Density is 55% approx. Colour 1b, which is the next up from black -- in certain light has a slight brown hue but from a little distance, you would say ``That person has black hair``.

The style is `` Freestyle`` with `Slightwave` in the hair.