(10-13-2010, 07:29 AM)Paul In Ireland Wrote: Hi again mrjoejohn.... no I wasn`t saying it would last longer but that as the whole scalp/bald area is coated in strong glue and the whole poly is adhered to it, it makes a very strong bond initially ---- like in comparison to a lace base where most wearers only adhere the perimeter and maybe a little strip or two across the centre of the scalp you know? I assume very few wearers would coat the entire scalp with glue and tapes and then sit their all -lace onto it. To do so you`d lose the advantage of allowing your scalp to `breath` and being able to shower and have the water get at the scalp. I think what happens over the duration of any bond, is the part which is glued/taped to the skin [in the case of lace ] does inevitably trap a certain amount of sweat etc..... the acid in the sweat along with moisture and body heat, eventually weakens the bond..... I don`t think the bases are `pushed away` as such --- it`s more of a breaking -down of the adhesives leading to a loosening of the system from the scalp. The red tape you mention --is that the stuff called `` Sensi -tac`` ? That`s really only for short term bonds -- I use it all the time as I do nightly detachments. I was giving this whole topic a bit of thought this afternoon as I was out cutting the grass [yeah I know --I have it bad lol !! ] and I can remember when I was in utah23s position --going through all the usual ``what if`` questions and trying to visualise myself with a full head of hair again. Then when I finally took the plunge with a Salon -- I was literally walking on air !! The `new`me - - I looked 20 yrs younger !! All my self -confidence came back --hadn`t really realised how low it had gone or how miserable I felt with just a few whisps of pathetic hair on top. Then after getting comfortable with it all and going back [and paying a lot of money ] for regular maintenance [de-bonds, cleaning etc ] I began going to the gym. This was OK in winter but in summer with the heat, the bond wouldn`t last as long and I remember one particular morning --- PANIC!!! I could feel the back of my head in the shower and a large wad of my own hair was stuck in a clump which I couldn`t `do`anything with ---had to phone the salon and couldn`t get in there until 2 days later ---the adhesive had began to break down and was weeping down from beneath the poly onto my own hair and `matting`it. God was I really self- conscious !! Did my best to clean it off but you know how tacky and messy it can be -- I had no solvents or anything like that --I left `` all that`` to the salon and my regular appointments with them. I was really very ignorant of what the process involved [very little as I now know ] so the great advantage for guys like utah23 is that once they learn it from the start, they need not be relying on some over-priced Salon and can feel confident that should the need arise during a bond, that it has to be re -done just that little bit earlier than expected, they are not having to literally `sweat it out`waiting for an appointment while wearing a system which has become loose -- I was panicking that it would literally fall off [it wouldn`t have ] and didn`t know that even with the adhesive becoming unstable, the system would stay in place pretty much OK until I got to the Salon. I have had a few instances of the system becoming loose during sleep --usually in summertime and towards the end of the normal wear period --disconcerting for a person who hadn`t a clue! That was usually into the third week of a bond with an all -poly base. Having your own glues/tapes and clean -up products at home is great --you`re in control. I find the poly strip around part of the perimeter is very easy to clean which is my main reason for using it and it helps with positioning the system too -- one of the possible draw-backs to consider is that the venting on poly is that bit different to the tying of knots on lace but I honestly haven`t noticed any difference that I can see when looking in the mirror -- it looks fine to me and others too.
mrjoejohn you raised another important thing to remember for new wearers and especially for guys who are still actively thinning---- John has mentioned this too on here ---- check your bald area at the back especially, as this can continue to `` fall`` and the original template you submitted with your first order, may no longer be representative of your bald area --you may need to consider making a new template after your first year or so of wearing --again it varies from person to person but worth bearing in mind --nothing worse than ordering a new system [s] and finding it/they are not adequately covering the bald area due to continued thinning / recession towards the back.
Finally just to say I personally wouldn`t wear all -poly again as the lace is so much healthier in allowing air at the skin on the scalp and prevents build-up of sweat, oils and dirt. Prolonged wearing of them [in my past experience] leads to skin irritations at least, and I have heard of at least 2 clients of the Salon , developing infections needing medical attention.How embarrassing to have to go `out`yourself to the Doc and ask for an anti -biotic cream for your head !! I also would just mention to utah23 that like him, I NEVER noticed bald/ing people really --never `` registered`` with me --when it was my turn to lose hair --different story !!Paranoid totally !!! LOL ! Seriously, the last Salon I used, the lady who owned it told me that you`d be surprised the number of teenagers coming in losing their hair and who are/were literally suicidal --really makes you think how much of a serious thing it is for so many people all over the world [a fact the Salons exploit fully ] Thankfully we have Toplace and a reasonably -priced solution to our dilemma.... long may it last !! Happy wearing everyone -- Paul.

In regards to using lace, I used Safe-grip white adhesive for a full head bond (2-3 layers) for my first time 2 days ago. OMG, It's awesome.
I keep running my fingers through the join and I can't tell where it is at!
I got a light density piece so you can see some scalp here and there.
Took a magnifying mirror and closely inspected the back where you can see my scalp some. But you can't see the lace cuz it's sitting (glued) flush on my scalp.
Also, when I sleep, go outside, shower etc. I totally forget about the piece on my head cuz it feels and looks part of me.
My only concern now is cleaning it on Sunday (7 days) when I de/re.
If it takes me 10 more minutes of mirror slide. . . I'm ok with that. It's worth it.
I don't feel any itching and I can still feel the wind and water etc.

Perimeter bond:
good for it's simplicity. But, it did not feel "part of me". It did not feel totally secure. I have not tried putting a couple of pieces of tape right down the middle though. I imagine that would help the unit's feel.
When I would run my fingers through the join I could totally feel the join.

My 2 cents (I'm a total newb!)