Thanks everyone. I still have doubts about the density you suggest. As you can see, my own hair is kind of a rug.
Take a look at this thread: http://forum.toplace.com/showthread.php?tid=4164 This is 65% and the crown there is WAY too thin for my liking. Compared to my sides/back and what I am achieving right now I would basically look like I am thinning on the top and this I do not want. Take a look at this: http://img51.imageshack.us/i/7nondirectdaylight.jpg/ This is much thicker than 65% and it is already too thin for my liking in the crown area. Also, please bear in mind by design blond hair has higher density than black. I expected suggestions in the 75%-80% range.

Reading through this forum I am sensing the vibe low density is some kind of a fetish here. I get the realism argument but to some cashiers I already look too young to buy alcohol for crying out loud


Paul, is what you are proposing called 'flaps'? Would that not be quite visible in the sideburns area?

Question about glue - I read some good things about GhostBond, that it is strong, not shiny, tidy, lasts long and cleans very easily. Do you think all-glue bond with this is reasonable or should I play around with tapes, too? Are they not too thick? When I think 'tape' I visualise blue double-sided tape 2-3mm thick you can find in DIY stores.

Henry, I am sick of concealer (HairSoReal). One of the reasons for going for TL is to get rid of this crap. Used to be excellent but now I sometimes leave 'skid marks' on door frames or bus ceilings if I'm not careful. Too much mess all around and looks not good anymore. Though I have no idea why cause my crown seems at least as thick if not thicker as on the picture from 3 years ago - see first post (yeyy for proscar and atomic minox).

Hi Val....the ultimate way to get a definitive answer to your exact density figures for your crown etc. is [ I suggest] make your template as suggested -and yes those are flaps at the side..many wear them..Swiss lace is the ultimate in invisibility if that`s a concern for you but it will be that bit weaker at that point as I said..you might need a little extra durability there--- have your template ready and then have a web-cam consultation with Debbie..... she`ll put your mind to rest and will advise on how much density to order which you can mark on the template with a marker in the various areas.....Tapes are extremely thin.... at a guess..about a quarter of a millimeter .. hardly worth `bothering`about ...... your observations on low-density being `pushed`here is valid but what you got to take into account is you/your hair is the exception rather than the rule ....you`ll need higher density than most of us.... it`s not a `one-size -fits -all` rule but generally it holds true and most people cannot carry off high densities...... I`d really consider a consult with Debbie .... you get an allowance off your first order too so it`s a good investment really.... cheers.. Paul.

So you def 100 percent positive you don't want to use concealers at the crown right? Are you happy with the location and density of your hairline at the front center. I am not talking about your receeded temples. but your hairline at the very front center of your head. Are you happy with that hairline, or u want that to be lower too? I am asking cause the other poster made an interesting comment. U could perhaps do something wild and crazy that might actually work. U wear ur system behind the very front center hairline, but than the system extends down towards the temple areas. So it would be covering ur temples but you still would be using ur real hair for the front center part of the hairline. The hair system shape would actually be inverse of how you normally would make it.

^You would also have to work out how to attach it by yourself.

I take off all the tape on my piece, spray a bit of alchohol on my head first...and then wack the piece on. If I'm wearing regularly I can line it up reasonably well the first time, but if I've had it off a few days, I try to do it in sections. But the stylist cut off a bit off the lace by accident, so its too short in one corner..argh, which means I've got to stretch it a bit to get it aligned. But it turns out ok.

(02-28-2011, 01:06 PM)Xeon005 Wrote: So you def 100 percent positive you don't want to use concealers at the crown right?

Right. I had a haircut last Saturday and when I came back home I actually had a moment of doubt cause I do look good with proper haircut. But the disadvantage of concealers that makes it impossible for me to engage in 50% of activities I'd like to engage in is a major downside. I want to live my life unrestricted.

(02-28-2011, 01:06 PM)Xeon005 Wrote: Are you happy with the location and density of your hairline at the front center.

I am semi-happy with the density but not the location. It is at least 2cm too high - as someone already mentioned here, even more than that.

I plan on placing my order this weekend so I am bumping this in hope of getting some more input.

Val,

Regarding sample size, it is often difficult for people to send in the full sample size of hair. They just don't have enough hair for a normal sample. The factory can match the color with a smaller sample but of course a bigger sample is ideal. Just do the best you can--the factory is really good about working with a smaller sample.
How far back should you go with the template? Now we're getting into a judgment call. I always tell people to keep as much of the own hair as they can while still getting the style that they want. If you'd like to send me a photo of the back of your head I can better advise you. For density I suggest going with a 65-70%. This should match what you have now although the concealor makes it look more dense. Also, I will send that photo of your crown area into the factory with your order so they can see the density that you'd like to achieve. It's always good to send in a photo to the factory. Is denser less detectable to the touch? Yes, but even with a lesser density the lace is so fine that it's undetectable. The older fine mono bases are very detectable to the touch---they're like wearing a screen on your head. Super Fine Swiss lace and French lace are the 'state of the art' and you won't be able to feel either one of them. Most people opt for a graduated front. It's the automatic default standard for all orders. But for some younger guys a non-graudated front looks great. For example, our home page model Colin goes with a non-graduated front and he looks great! Any order will automatically have a graduated front unless the customer specifically asks for a non-graduated front. A non-graduated front goes hand-in-hand with dense sides and back. If you have thin sides and back then a non-graduated front will look too heavy. Judging your color is 'tricky' for two reasons. First, all monitors are set differently and therefore the color is not accurate. Second, the concealors tend to dull the hair color and make it difficult to get the true color. If you send in a hair sample the factory will match the color exactly. Please make sure that the hair sample does not have concealor on it so they can get the true color match. Off hand it looks like a #22R but again I can't be sure. The difference between Super Fine Swiss lace and French is very small. You have to hold the two materials up to your nose to see the difference. The Super Fine Swiss lace has slightly larger holes. The French is somewhat stronger. Properly applied both are undetectable. With your density and exposing only a part of your hairline I recommend going with French lace--there is no advantage to going with SFS lace for you and you get the benefit of a stronger base. For starting out in bonding I suggest using 'Got 2 Be Glued Spiking Glue.' It will give you a good 4-6 hold and is an easy clean-up. It's not as strong as tape or glue but it allows you to easily remove the unit in case you don't feel that you have it positioned exactly where you want it. When you get the hang of positioning your unit and attaching I suggest moving on to glue or tape. Glues and tapes are a matter of personal preference. I use both---tape to attach and glue to touch up between gaps in the tape. I like 'Walker No Shine Tape' and 'Super Tape.' Both give a strong hold and do not break down and get 'gooey.' For touch up I use Base Bond, I Glue (medium strength glues) and also Ultra Hold (strong hold).
Regards,
John
http://toplace.com/

John, thanks. I will ask some following questions to your answers but if someone else wants to chip in, by all means please do.

You can see pictures with no concealers in the first post. Should I get you some other picture of the back of my head? If so, can you specify what exactly should it show?
I got a decent size sample last weekend. I think it shows the colour nicely. However, please not the colour of my hair on pictures is NOT affected by the concealer. The concealer is used only in the centre of the crown and as you can see both sides and the centre is exactly the same colour(s).

Again, the question of density. I am still hesitant of going for 'only' 70%. My hair is really thick and apart from the obvious crown area, the concealer does not make it thicker at all. Actually, with loads of concealer my impenetrable crown matches sides/front. Also, my front has been thinning over the years and is probably only 50% as thick as sides. However, even 50% density is enough to make the scalp invisible (unless parted).

I am not hung up on excessive thickness but from what I saw on this forum I conclude in my case the threshold of 'too thick' is higher than average. My eyebrows are bush-like and I have to trim it so I don't look like Wolverine.
Please, take a look at the first picture here: http://forum.toplace.com/showthread.php?tid=4164
If I suddenly show up with such density, people would think my hair actually got noticeably worse. Hence, I am afraid than even 70% is not enough for me (hell, I am not even sure of 75%).

As for base, I though of going all SFS. Some people complained about visibility of French and since I'd also go for small flaps, the visible hairline would be quite long. Besides, in everyday life hairline gets exposed quite often, anyway.

You mentioned 4-6 hold with Got2BeGlued. Did you mean days? I was hoping for reattachment only once a week. I don't really have much time during weekdays.

Val .. I understand your concerns regarding density...which is why I suggested a webcam consultation with Debbie to put your mind at rest... you will need to sit near a window [for good natural light] and she`ll give you the correct advice... your situation is a little unusual [density/colour] - there is only so much info / `idea` pics can give so that people can advise you as best they can .... it would be a shame to receive a system --especially your first-- and find it`s not fit for purpose... if you find it`s not as dense as you want, it will have to be sent back for more hair to be added [obviously delaying you from wearing ]....when John say`s 4-6 he`s talking days .. no one leaves a bond in place for for 4-6 weeks.....about a week would be the best for scalp-cleanliness/health etc. In view of your [understandable ] concerns, I`d really book that with Debbie...she`s very knowledgeable and helpful...regards, Paul.

Thanks, Paul. I can't do the video consultation with Debbie cause I don't have a web cam. I can, however, make some more pics of better quality, for example with macro function in daylight.