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+--- Thread: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) (/showthread.php?tid=6184)
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RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - NoHairNoFair - 09-14-2014
I agree with your points. But I should probably explain something. I'm sure making the template by ones self is completely doable. But when I did my own template, I was definitely struggling. Not only did the hairline come out not what I intended, but the shape, contour and fit was suspect as well. I couldn't put the template back on my head without having to press down hard to make it conform to the shape of my skull. I knew it was off with respect to accurately representing my skull shape. The saran wrap was initially nice and snug but as I kept putting on scotch tape it kept changing its shape. I was frustrated and didn't even bother considering trying again since it took me hours to make it. That being said, it's one of those things that would require practice and repetition, to make it accurate and precise. And some things are best done by another person, especially something that involves one thing we all can't see, our heads, like haircuts. Getting it done by someone else who's done it way more than I have could be more beneficial. Since I probably screwed up, it might be best give someone else a try.
About the system behind hairline, I guess I won't ever know till I try right? I know my old hairline wasn't as dense as this one but this is a non graduated system. And I personally think it could work. I only say this because my hairline wasn't the the giveaway for my hair loss, it was more the rest of the top area, and a graduated system behind it could blend more easily. If not, I guess I can thin it out a little more or order a lower density at the hairline or overall. I just don't want to ignore a potential benefit if it's there.
As far as the attachments go, that's one thing I need to learn. I need a system undetectable as possible to touch and sight. My problem right now is visible lifting throughout the perimeter, visible lace, visible glue, white glue on the lace, gaps between the tape, I can feel the edges of the lace too. Also what's the difference between lace release, glue melter, and solvent.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - Paul In Ireland - 09-14-2014
Yes-- it can be frustrating making a template ....most guys have to make a few stabs at it before it`s passable... I use kitchen cling-film and ordinary [clear] Sellotape --the very wide one... there are tutorials on Youtube on template-making --have you looked at those ?
I wear French lace --- to be honest, it`s not much ` heavier` than Swiss..... the reason you`re getting bits which are lifting is the fit is not correct..many guys make their templates marginally smaller than the actual bald area..they then stretch the lace a little when bonding it on ... this gives a ` tighter` fit ..however, if it`s overstretched, it can lead to headaches and a tight feeling on the scalp ..... the areas of lift feel very large to you.... I know how irritating they are ....they`re probably not as visible as you feel they are --it`s because this is all new to you and you`re very conscious of the imperfections. ...we all are when it comes to it...... I totally get how annoying this is ......it`s a matter of getting the next one to be more accurate...... would a stock system work for you in terms of colour ? It`s just that it could be trimmed to size to fit your thin / bald area and the front would be graduated density...the stocks are all medium density ... just if you are very unhappy with this one, a stock might work /tide you over until your next custom-made arrives ? Stocks can be dispatched and be with you in a matter of days.....just a thought.You`d most likely still have ares on the perimeter where you`ll feel pleats or areas not sitting snugly to the scalp--stocks have their limitations but one might get you out of this situation. It sure sounds to me that your glue was not allowed the correct ` cure` time between layers....a rush job....you cannot ` rush` a bond when using glue/s ---it takes patience and time ..most of these stylists just simply will not give anyone that long ....which is why I have often used Got2bglued in the stylists chair....takes about 2 minutes to apply, and system can be placed onto it soon after and NO white marks going home !! All most of them want to do is slap the thing on your head if you haven`t arrived with it bonded on yourself [which is hard to do with an uncut system and long hair ---you`d look quite a ` picture` walking on the street with that on your head !! ] cut it in and shove you out the door again !! [after relieving you of a wad of cash usually] I can understand it to an extent but if they`re pushed for time, they should tell you to arrive with it taped-up and prepped in a bag so all they have to do is sit it on, peel off the backing-papers and cut it in... I think either have it taped or bring Got2b with you ---it`ll save a lot of the hassle you`re now having.
Lace-release is what it says on the tin ! -- it breaks the bond between lace and the underlying adhesive material. ..it`s an alcohol. Glue melter is another type of alcohol which attacks sticky residues on scalp and / or base ..... it has it`s limitations and some glues can be really really stubborn, hence the necessity for a citrus solvent sometimes..... it makes light work of such matter.....use a sweat band around your head, spray it onto the bare scalp and allow it 5 minutes to attack the residue...wipe it off with kitchen towel then shampoo /clean your head as normal .....a good idea before re-bonding a system is to wipe your scalp with a cotton pad moistened with alcohol ..it`ll remove oils which can still be on the skin after shampooing and will kill any possible lurking bacteria...leaves the skin squeaky-clean ready for you new tapes/ glue.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - NoHairNoFair - 09-14-2014
So does the lace-release have any benefit over 91% alcohol from the drug store?
Between glue-melter and citrus solvent, if glue-melter has more limitations, should I just only buy a citrus solvent in the case or is their a benefit of having glue-melter as well?
Got2bglued gets released every time you go to the shower?
Would all glue around the perimeter, and two pieces of tape in the middle be the best attachment to prevent those gaps in between the tapes and lifting around the perimeter?
What specific tapes and glues could you recommend for a 1 week hold?
I was looking at these products as shampoo, conditioning, and leave-in, are these a good choice?:
http://www.amazon.com/Its-10-Miracle-Shampoo-Keratin/dp/B006Z8B5HS/ref=sr_1_5?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1410643430&sr=1-5
http://www.amazon.com/Its-10-Miracle-Conditioner-Keratin/dp/B006Z8BN02/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1410642939&sr=8-10&keywords=its+a+10+shampoo
http://www.amazon.com/Its-10-Miracle-Leave-In-10-Ounce/dp/B002CMLHEC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410643807&sr=8-1&keywords=its+a+10+leave+in
Also I notice that my natural hair feels much softer, smoother, and moist than my system hair. My system hair feels hard and rough in comparison.
The stylist also told me that I have to use product, is that true? She also says that I can't use oils because they interfere with the attachment. But our scalp excretes oil anyway right? A small amount of something natural and as close as possible to our natural scalp oils like jojoba oil once in a while is something I thought would be good. What are yours thoughts on that?
And thanks for taking the time.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - Paul In Ireland - 09-14-2014
I order all my supplies from the Hair Direct site as they have the most comprehensive range ...literally a one-stop shop for everything a wearer needs.... the only alcohol I have bought in a Pharmacy here is ` Surgical spirit` ....it`s no use really, for removing /cleaning.....it`s fine to wipe your scalp with...... I don`t know the percentages of alcohol/s in the lace release etc. .... I just order them by ` name` so I know what I`m getting.
It`s not recommended to expose lace to citrus solvents too often as it can discolour the lace, so use a glue melter [alcohol] on your lace to clean it.
Dryness is the main enemy of system hair....frequent shampooing will exacerbate this and will also lighten / ` lift` the colour, leading to obvious / visible differences [more headache !]
A good colour -maintaining conditioner is ``Back2 Natural`` [ also available on the H.D. site] the ` Dark Natural ash Brown` is usually the one to get if you have brown hair..... you need to use this from early on rather than towards the end of the system`s wearable life--it`ll keep the colour from lifting too early...
I have the ``It`s a 10`` leave-in conditioner ... I find it ok /gives a nice shine but , like many products on system-hair, it can tend to build up and the system can look a bit wiggy --it`s best used sparingly ---often it`s fine just to spritz with water every other day--this kind of reactivates it again.... my preferred one is `PPI Enhance` leave-in daily conditioner [green bottle --also on H.D.] --it`s cheap, effective and has UV filters in it .... just 3 or 4 sprays onto damp hair is enough...re-activate it next day by just spritzing with water....
Things like jojoba oil can be used [sparingly] towards the tips of the hair....using oils near the base can lead to knots becoming undone and hair shedding out .... have a look at the `Remysoft` shampoo and conditioning cream ..... there`s a ` finishing serum` that they sell too ----again, all available on the one site.... the serum would be better /safer than ` oils`.
In relation to tapes /duration of hold.------ it`s impossible to be definitive in what will work for you / your individual physiology...... there are too many variables at play ....it`s trial and error..... if you look on that site, they give a brief ` description` of each bonding-product and an estimated / approximate hold-time which may be expected..... some guys get over a week from Walker no -shine tape --- I can only get 3 days and it turns to goo on my head ! We`re all different. I use Ultra hold tape..it`s pretty good , but I detach nightly so I don`t know how long it would last if I wanted a long-term hold ..... my head tends to be very ` hot`.... tapes don`t hold up for very long for me but that`s fine.... I just replace the things nightly as I have gotten into that routine. I think you need to get the hang of attachments / detachments initially --trying to nail down every last millimeter of your perimeter just now will be problematic...I`d use tapes for the back /sides and glue at the front where visibility may be a concern for you ....it`s easier to tape up your system while it`s off your head...peel off the backing papers [can be ` fiddly` and annoying until you get the hang of it] and turn them so the shiny non-stick side is now facing the tape on your base ..lightly press the paper back onto the tape with a corner creased /folded back --this will provide a barrier between your scalp and tape, allowing you to position it on your head....you can then work your way around the perimeter, peeling off /removing the papers as you go, using the creased bit as a grip -point.
Some guys like to apply their tapes a few millimeters ` inside` the perimeter ....they place / bond -on the system, and then they use glue layers directly onto the scalp so that the non-taped bit can be glued down ..... when applying glue , never ever press lace down onto ` wet` glue...it`ll go through the lace and solidify and you`ll have a terrible job to sort it out.....glues have to be applied thinly and evenly and allowed to cure almost dry between each layer..it`s time-consuming and something I have no patience for , but that`s just me..... I know how important non -detectability to the touch is to many people so it`s worth while investing the time if you need to get a high degree of undetectability...... you can use a strip of tape across the middle of the head if you wish .... it`s a matter of choice..... try to get used to ` general` bonding and cleaning first ...then you can go for a more``surgical`` / precise type of bond with literally every millimeter nailed down, if that`s your desire.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - NoHairNoFair - 09-14-2014
Okay, so Didi told me to get some oil resistant white glue. But I can't find that in the toplace or hairdirect store.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - Paul In Ireland - 09-14-2014
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lace-Wig-Oil-Resistant-White-Glue-ORWG-/251354713485
This glue is adversely-affected by extremes of cold, such as in Aircraft cargo holds, so if possible, get it shipped by surface-delivery.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - NoHairNoFair - 09-16-2014
Ok so just ordered the orwg. It's starting to lift from the back and sides a lot more now. I can can't comb the hair without the piece lifting. And when I put my head on a pillow it does the same. It's only been like 4 days. I'm not sure why the tape(duotac 1 inch strip I think) is giving out. I don't think she used glue anywhere besides the hairline, and there were gaps between the tape pieces. I'm a little shocked about how weak the attachment is , I feel like I could pull it off with my hand and I wouldn't even have to pull hard. I have to use one hand to press down and hold the lace to style it. Hope these are the worst days.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - Paul In Ireland - 09-16-2014
It`s very possible that whatever glue and / or tape was used, does not hold up well to your individual physiology -- it`s always trial and error at the start to find which products work best for you... I just wish these manufacturers would make ` sample size` [ glues particularly] products so a person doesn`t have to pay a lot of money for a tub of glue, only to find it`s not working well for them...the initial ``set-up`` costs of getting supplies can be high.
Back to your issue: If it`s causing you such a degree of problem [lifting etc.] well, you can`t be putting up with that........ you haven`t supplies to hand [everyone who`s ordered and is waiting on their first system should always, always, get in a full stock of maintenance / care products before the system arrives] so you could simply go to `Walmart` and get one of those Citrus solvents I mentioned before.... also, a tube of ` Got2bglued` spiking glue, and, in the absence of system-specific shampoo, you could use `Johnsons baby shampoo` [the `No more tears` one ] If you can get one of those little eye / ear drops applicator tubes in a drug store, get one as the`re very very handy for ` targeting` your lace-release etc. to where it`s required i.e. directly onto the bonded area of lace, rather than spraying it into the hair from the atomiser bottle which it comes in......you know the little glass tube with the rubber bulb on the end ...you just suction some liquid into the tube, then squeeze the bulb to eject the liquid where you need it ..... Apply citrus solvent with your dropper, around the perimeter where the tape/glue is ....allow it a few minutes to attack the adhesive [ shouldn`t take long by what you`re describing ]..... once the system is off, give the base a rinse -off under the shower-head...use only lukewarm water......you can apply the baby shampoo to the wet lace --allow it to sit for a few minutes, then rinse it off again, using the shower head....you might have to re-do it just to ensure all the citrus solvent if out f the hair [knots] and lace because it can interfere with a new bond.....clean your scalp with solvent too ...keep it out of your eyes.....spray it on and allow it a few minutes to attack any adhesive residue..wipe it all of with kitchen-towel , then hop into the shower and clean your head/hair as normal. You squeeze the excess water from the system, then gently blot it dry on a clean towel ---don`t rub-at the hair.....when it`s almost dry, gently brush it with a brush which has nylon bristles /teeth which have rounded tips...the tips prevent the brush snagging in the lace.......when it`s dry, apply two thin coats of Got2b to your scalp...allow the first to dry / cure a bit, then do the second one ...pop your system on then when it`s still wet [ the got2b] You have a short time to slide / ` adjust` the position of the system when using Gt2b [unlike ` proper` glues]. That will at least ensure you have a nice strong bond with no lifting for a couple of days...you may get a little lifting here and there but you can easily pop on a little more Got2b as required.......that will tide you over until your supplies arrive. Nothing more annoying than feeling that degree of looseness and ` visibility` so just sort it out yourself as I outlined ..it`s easy to do!
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - NoHairNoFair - 09-17-2014
I'm not sure if it's the adhesives that aren't compatible or if it's more the fit of the piece that's off. After all the template wouldn't fit on my head without me pressing on it. Maybe the tape was effected by sweating as well. I guess I'll just have to get supplies and learn how to do attachments myself, and a new template. But the piece lifting from just combing and styling is certainly not normal right? I'm gonna order the rest of my supplies, next appointment with Didi is Friday. So till then I'll just have to keep pressing down on the lace.
RE: First Piece just cut in, need help!! (photos) - NoHairNoFair - 09-22-2014
Update: Saw Didi on Friday. She made a template in 2 mins which is way more accurate than what I made in 2 hours. She adjusted the hairline to sit behind my own natural hairline and it's amazing what a few millimeters does in terms of making it look more natural. Now I just have to wait a few months for the natural hairline to grow back. She did an all glue attachment with walker ultra hold and it's a better attachment than last time. I'm going to have to learn to do attachments myself though, no way I can afford $80 service. Also interested in a perimeter glue, tape in the middle attachment instead of all glue for breathability purposes. Would make cleanup easier I imagine ,but I don't want lifting either. I'm gonna see her again for cleaning/rebonding in 2 weeks but that might be the last time until the next system's initial cut in. The lace edges on the perimeter could be more secured down, especially for psychological purposes. But I guess I'll have to get that done myself. Next piece I'm gonna switch to a sfs instead of French, and a graduated front too. Have to say, this is so worth it, but God her cut in is almost half the price of the system, and I only make 70 bucks a week while going to college so I'm gonna need a affordable option .